Fighting to Stop Fighting + Not Giving Up with Abbey + Jake
Not giving up. Not giving in. Not settling. Being all in.
Today's episode recounts the story of Abbey, Jake, and their 7-year-old son finding purpose rather than despair, leaning in, offering mutual respect, and feeling like a united front.
From feeling desperate and helpless, having "no good days" to parenting authentically, strategically, enjoying time together again.
From their son never doing something he doesn't want to do, to not saying no anymore.
From considering divorce, to the strongest they've ever felt together.
IN THIS EPISODE, WE COVERED...
- How Jake took a good hard look at his relationship with his son
- What they had to do to get the "Jerry Springer" moments to stop
- The heartbreaking question their son asked and how they transformed his self-esteem
DON'T MISS-
- The power that comes from asking for help
I believe in you + I'm cheering you on.
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TRANSCRIPT
Jake 0:00
A huge thing I had to do was look at my relationship with him. That was a big spotlight I put on myself, like, well, you know, I'm with him all the time. He's with me all the time. We do things together. You know this and that, what do you mean I don't have a good relationship with my son? Of course I do. And then I really started to examine it, and I'm like, wow, I guess I'm just like dictating to him all the time. I don't know if I'm even showing respect to him necessarily. You've got to make sure you give your child respect. I had to look at that and be like, boy, I can't say for sure I am giving him what he needs. Why is he going to respect me if I don't respect him? And I'm not showing that. So I really had to look at my relationship with him, and from that, I really started to get the outcome I was looking for. You know, I don't want to yell at him, I just want to say, hey, could you do this, and have him do what I'm asking, or have him not fight at every corner he possibly can. And those things started to happen during the course.
Danielle Bettmann 1:06
Ever feel like you suck at this job? Motherhood, I mean. Have too much anxiety and not enough patience? Too much yelling, not enough play? There's no manual, no village, no guarantees. The stakes are high. We want so badly to get it right, but this is survival mode. We're just trying to make it to bedtime. So if you're full of mom guilt, your temper scares you, you feel like you're screwing everything up, and you're afraid to admit any of those things out loud - this podcast is for you. This is Failing Motherhood. I'm Danielle Bettmann, and each week we'll chat with a mom ready to be real, showing her insecurities, her fears, her failures, and her wins. We do not have it all figured out. That's not the goal. The goal is to remind you, you are the mom your kids need. They need what you have. You are good enough, and you're not alone. I hope you pop in earbuds, somehow sneak away, and get ready to hear some hope from the trenches. You belong here, friend, we're so glad you're here.
Danielle Bettmann 2:20
Hey, it's Danielle. This is our last guest episode on Failing Motherhood for the foreseeable future, and it's my favorite format where a client chooses to pay it forward and share their journey, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly in front of the whole internet in hopes that it encourages another family - that is such a scary thing to do, let's not like blow over that part. This is huge, and I am always so honored and grateful that they're willing to do this. We are so grateful, right? And this time, I really do feel like they fully embody the determination and commitment and resolve that I see in all of my clients, an absolute unwillingness to give up, to give in, to settle but rather being all in and reaping the priceless rewards of that work, having the attitude of we are going to figure this out. And they have gone from no good days to mostly good days, from their son never doing something he doesn't want to do, to not saying no anymore, from considering divorce to the strongest they've ever felt together. I'm so proud and thrilled to have the chance to introduce you to Abbey and Jake. So, without further ado, here is how they did it.
Danielle Bettmann 3:57
Welcome to Failing Motherhood. My name is Danielle Bettmann. On today's episode, I am joined by Abbey and Jake. Thank you guys so much for being here. I'm really excited to dive into your story and get a chance to talk to you more.
Abbey 4:09
Thanks for having us.
Danielle Bettmann 4:10
Of course. So go ahead and just do a quick intro. Who are you? Who's in your family?
Abby 4:16
So we are Abbey and Jake. We have a seven-year-old son, seven and a half. I am a teacher, an art teacher by trade, with high school students. And Jake is an entrepreneur by trade. We were married for like, seven years before we had Parker. I am a very involved aunt and like, have been around, you know, I was teaching for 12 years before we had him, so I always thought that, you know, this is going to be easy, and here we are.
Danielle Bettmann 4:54
Yes, I've heard that a lot, and that is my story as well, coming from an education. And background, you have so much more reason to put higher expectations on yourself, because you should know what to do if you do for other people's kids. So tell me a little bit more about your kiddo. What's he like? What have things been like over the last few years?
Jake 5:18
You know, even from just a baby he was, you know, that, quote, unquote, tough kid, colicky, or whatever you want to call it. You know, we kept getting the, oh, he'll grow out of it, or it's just a phase, and it just kept kind of not going away or just evolving into the next eyebrow raise of what's going on here? And probably about three years ago, it was really like, okay, I think we have a problem. And we just tried to, then, you know, struggle through finding, you know, well, maybe our kid is not like other kids, or what's going on, you know, all the things go through your head. Is it us? Is it him? Is there an underlying issue? And, you know, Abbey definitely spearheaded the digging, endlessly at night, looking for information. And we've had different professional help, and nothing really stuck, is where we were at.
Abbey 6:23
Yeah, I remember when the first phone call we had to come home from preschool, like, your son, just what's going on? And we're like, if I knew, I would have already fixed it. Then I said that to his kindergarten teacher, and then I said to his first-grade teacher.
Jake 6:41
All veteran teachers, too. They're not like first-year teachers.
Danielle Bettmann 6:44
So, tell me about first grade. That was last year, right? Tell me about first grade.
Abbey 6:51
So he would hide under the table, and he would do anything and everything. He figured out how to get out of all work, all avoidance issues. You know, he had his teacher running circles.
Jake 7:08
She'd give us daily reports, like text reports, of like she was doing the best she could with what she was working with, but apparently she never dealt with a Parker. So she was doing the best she could. But it was pretty tough.
Abby 7:23
He had a one-on-one aide.
Jake 7:24
Yeah, and this is also with his aide doing this, too. On top of being academically, medically, he was out of school almost once a week.
Abby 7:35
36 days in kindergarten.
Danielle Bettmann 7:37
Oh, wow.
Jake 7:37
We had him brought in and tested, and they thought he had this rare blood disease that he would get these phantom temperatures. So we had him tested for that. Thank God he doesn't or didn't at the time. But we're still like, okay, what is it, you know? So that's where we came from last year.
Abbey 7:53
And my favorite thing was, I don't know how many people said this to me, but they're like, you're good parents. You'll figure it out. What does that even mean? They're like, you'll figure it out. It was pretty hopeless.
Danielle Bettmann 8:07
Now, when we met this fall, you had said things have improved since last school year. I think you changed some of the school environment. There was less of a ratio in the classroom, things like that, but it hasn't improved enough at home. Tell me, kind of where you were at and what you had tried before finding me.
Abbey 8:09
Well, I read a bunch of books. I did the doom scrolling thing, where it's like, all these different techniques, and I think you've said it before, where I would try to implement them. And Jake would be like, What are you doing this week? And then, you know, he was being told by different people, you should be doing this, and you should be doing that. And then he would do it, and I'm like, what are you doing? You know, we both kind of grew up similarly, where our parents were very like, it's our way or the highway, and I'm absolutely the strong willed willed one, absolutely, you know, you tell me to do something, and I will do anything and everything exactly the opposite, because I'm going to do it my way.
Danielle Bettmann 9:16
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Abbey 9:18
Yes. Got it from me. Jake tells me to get up out of bed. And you know what, I won't be up for another 20 minutes now. Like, it doesn't matter who says it to me. Like, if somebody tells me to do something, and it's an order, eh.
Danielle Bettmann 9:35
That proves difficult to parent.
Abbey 9:38
Yeah, I get where our son is coming from.
Danielle Bettmann 9:42
Anything else you wanted to add, Jake, to kind of how things were before?
Jake 9:47
My God. I mean, you know, if Jerry Springer met us, we would have been doing pretty well a couple of nights. It was not just occasionally. It was on a regular we had blowouts. I knew there was a serious problem. What really got me was that we're screaming at each other. Here is my, you know, five-year-old, we're now yelling at each other, and he has got his fist clenched, reared back, like, if this kid were any bigger, we'd be in a fist fight. I said, okay, this is a major problem. This is not good, because, guess what, in another 10 years, he will be so I really did a reality check of like, what I'm doing is not working. I grew up this, you know, 80s kid, and the very close-knit family. I mean, both parents they're still alive today. And, you know, married for, oh, my God, almost 50 years, and it's just like that, real close-knit family built on respect. When I went into this, I'm like, you know what? Disciplining my child and teaching him respect is not going to be an issue. I'm not worried about it whatsoever. And then that was just thrown out the window after year, four or five years, right around that point is what I really remember saying, okay, I need help as a father. What do I do? And the struggle ensued from that point on for a couple of years, nights when I was becoming that classic guy who didn't want to come home from work. It was easier at work than going home. So you had a bad day there. It's going to be worse when you get there. And that's just, I knew that wasn't right, but I didn't know what to do. I felt really, really lost and powerless as a father.
Danielle Bettmann 11:33
Which is understandable when you have that much conflict and that much kind of helplessness creating that desperation because you care absolutely.
Jake 11:41
Yeah, you care, but don't know what to do, and know what you're doing is wrong. It's a tough situation to be in, you know?
Danielle Bettmann 11:42
Were you getting a whole gamut of unsolicited advice, or even solicited advice that just conflicted with each other?
Jake 11:58
Oh, yeah, yeah, completely. I mean not to ever say what I got was bad advice. But it absolutely does not work for my child. It may have worked for yours, but some of it hurt what I employed. And again, it worked for them, absolutely not for our situation. So that's also tough too, because, oh, you must not be doing it right or, well, you know, all these things that the doubt comes in that, are you really good parents? But that makes it really tough.
Danielle Bettmann 12:31
Absolutely, because you, of course, you're going to have moments that you're not proud of, that you know, you end up regretting, and that don't feel intentional or mindful, and so yeah, that guilt is going to eat away at you. And what conclusion are you supposed to come to if everybody else seems to figure it out and you can't?
Abbey 12:51
Yeah, we were alone.
Jake 12:52
Right? We must suck.
Danielle Bettmann 12:53
When it comes to real-life relationships, there wasn't anyone that you really felt like you could understand, would you say?
Abbey 13:02
Absolutely not. We didn't find one, with you we have, but nobody that we know personally around here has a kid like this.
Jake 13:12
Nope, I would explain things, and they didn't get it or it didn't sink in. No one could relate that I have ever met in person.
Danielle Bettmann 13:23
That's so isolating.
Jake 13:25
Yes, and that's another thing that we really felt was that we were isolated. And then to boot that, you know, Abbey brought up that the two of us weren't even aligned in what we're doing together, because she's reading books and trying to do something else. And I know something else needs to be done, but I don't know what to do. So what do you do? You just revert back to what you know and what worked for Dad. So it's, you know, it's gonna stick. It's gonna stick well, so then we end up, you know, internal conflict of, I'm undermining her. She's undermining me. And our techniques when we're trying to do something with Parker and it's a recipe for disaster.
Danielle Bettmann 14:03
That's gonna affect your relationship.
Abbey 14:05
Yeah, my mama bear would come out and just, you know, it would be like you can't do that.
Danielle Bettmann 14:10
Yeah? So much disconnection coming from a place of you both just caring.
Jake 14:16
Our relationship absolutely suffered.
Danielle Bettmann 14:19
Yeah. So what led you to find me?
Abbey 14:23
I was trying to come up with where, when somebody said to me that they were listening to podcasts, and I'm like, that is something I've never actually done, and I have a lot of time on my hands, like I can read and read and read and doom scroll and do all that, those things. But at one point, somebody said, Hey, like, I've been listening to this podcast. Actually, I think it was my running friend. And I'm like, oh, that is one way to research I have not done yet. So I picked up my phone and I looked through Apple podcasts, and started scrolling around in there, and I was looking, you know, for, like, parenting podcasters, and I found another one first, and I sent the link to Jake, and he's like, oh no, not this lady.
Jake 15:16
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah. I was turned off.
Abbey 15:24
Honestly, I don't even remember what it was called. No, it's definitely not you. But it was like, it was good, but like the connection wasn't there. And then I found you, and I was like, oh my God, it's our kid. Like, that's it. Finally, I sent it to Jacob, like, you gotta listen to this.
Jake 15:45
So I, you know, begrudgingly, listen to another podcast that I'm not gonna like. And I don't remember the guest guy's name, honestly, but I listened to what he was saying. He's like, you know, grew up in the 80s, blah, blah, blah, and this is the way it was. And everything I did was just wrong, and I remember what he was saying, I just flat out laughed, and I for once heard another guy say what I was going through. So I then, of course, intently listened, and, I mean, couldn't believe how much we aligned, like, how much he was saying that, Oh, my God, maybe there are other kids like mine out there. And for once, that reality of or that hope, I guess, came about, I'm like, all right, tell me more, I am interested. Because really, I remember, like, coming out of that room like Abbey, Parker just did that last week. Oh, my God, that's a breakthrough. Yeah, that's the first I heard about you.
Jake 15:46
Yeah, yeah. Was it Joseph? Was it Sarah and Joseph?
Abbey 16:54
Yeah, yes, it was.
Danielle Bettmann 16:56
Abby remembers, okay.
Abbey 16:57
Yeah, because I've listened to like all of your podcasts.
Danielle Bettmann 16:59
That just sounds very Joseph. I remember. Okay, so amazing. And then, well, then how did you go down the rabbit hole? How long did it take until we kind of ended up meeting?
Abbey 17:13
So, I kept listening to your podcast, and I listened to, like, the Master Class by myself. I didn't give that to Jake at first, and then I found that one with Joseph on there, and then I'm like, all right, you've got to listen to the Master Class, because I'm starting to try some of these things, and it works. And at that point, it was, like, the end of the summer, I think was when I was really kind of listening and pushing, and I don't work over the summer. So things have gotten better because I'm here and, like, I'm not working. It's always easier when I'm home and not working myself. So the end of the summer got better, and then we put our son in OT and did all these different things. I'm like, oh, things are getting better. And then one night I'm just like, after another night of doom, you know, just like, just being miserable, I'm like, we gotta change something. Like, I don't know how much longer I can do this.
Abbey 17:33
Things are getting better, but not at the rate we want.
Danielle Bettmann 18:13
And what was that thought that just drove, like, you know, like, I can't live like this much longer, or like this isn't how it's supposed to be? What were some of those thoughts that really just kind of pushed you over the edge, because there is the rational part of your brain, too, that's saying you don't need to do anything. It is getting better, you know?
Abbey 18:39
I think it was needing to go back to school. In the stress of going back to school, because he was going to go back. We had already had years of horrible, tough days, tough nights, the whole nine yards, so we're going back to school. I could feel his anxiety going up and up and up with the thought of going back to school, and then it felt like home life was getting worse again, and it was just like one tantrum after another, and it was just chaotic and hopeless, like I had no hope, like I I remember saying, I'm miserable. I have nothing fun to look forward to, and if I don't, he doesn't either, which none of us did.
Jake 19:24
I don't want to overplay that things were getting better. I mean, no, no, things were not getting that much better over the summer. Things are better when Abbey's on summer break with him. But, yeah, see, well, once school hits, it really just goes downhill. So maybe we're in a bit, a little bit of afterglow of the summer or whatnot. But then once that comes, it's right back to it. So we were making some progress, but just not at all what we needed to be doing. And I mean, I remember having conversations with Abbey and saying, Is it us? Should we consider divorce? You know, is this something? Is it our relationship? You know, would we be better off on our own, doing this? I love you, I like you. But is it we doing this? So, we had those conversations. That's where we're at.
Danielle Bettmann 20:18
So, I mean, you're problem-solving from every angle possible.
Jake 20:21
Yeah, so you know, we were pretty desperate and hopeless.
Danielle Bettmann 20:27
So, when, like, how did you end up coming across my desk? And then how did you kind of evaluate whether or not this was the right fit?
Abbey 20:37
Well, I said, I don't know what else to do. I think that we need to commit to this, because it's the one thing that looks like it's gonna fit, feels like it fits, feels like it connects with us in every way that I've ever seen. And I don't know what else to do, and I need, I think, I said this to Jake, I'm like, I need you to do it with me. I can't do this by myself. I'm doing things and like, trying to tell you about them, just doesn't work. So we need to do this together. And if it's not together, we're, we're not going to make it.
Danielle Bettmann 21:13
Absolutely, so did you have any other hesitations? I mean, like, cost, you know, things like that?
Jake 21:19
Well, sure. I mean, you know, it's not the cheapest thing ever, right? You know it's not, I mean, we're comfortable, we're not rich, but you know, the price was okay. You know, you gotta feel it, you know, I hope it's worth it, so sure, of course, that's a consideration. On top of that. We're gonna get into it, and I'm gonna like, oh my God, what is this crap? And then we don't align, you know, Abby wants to keep doing it, and I'm like, just, I'm done. So those were also the hesitations I had.
Danielle Bettmann 21:52
Sure, no, that is completely warranted.
Abbey 21:55
You know, it was kind of scary, because you're like, all right, how much is this going to cost us, and if it doesn't work, that's really scary, and now I'm going to feel like an idiot because then I spent a lot of money on something that just was a waste. But I mean, we've been round and round, we brought him to a psychologist. We've spent hundreds and maybe 1000s of dollars on it, we've done a lot of things before this. I mean, medically wise, and just everybody just kind of looked at us like, no answers.
Jake 22:33
Yeah, I mean, it didn't take too much more convincing for me. Like, once I heard that one podcast, Abbey, you know, gave me some other highlights, and then I talked to you, we got on one-on-one. It was the most information I've heard to date that I'm like, wow, maybe somebody gets me, gets us. What's going on? So? What the hell? We don't have any other options. Looking at us right in the face at the moment, things aren't good at all, and this looks promising. So let's give it a go.
Danielle Bettmann 23:17
So what happened? What are things like now, what's the after? What's the punchline like? Was it worth it?
Abbey 23:26
Yeah, let me say, when we first started, we were both kind of like, all right, we're doing the first module, all right, we're doing the second module. And like, when we first started, we would get on the calls, and I'm a little bit more willing to participate than Jake is. I remember, like, being really scared to ask certain questions and to admit the behaviors that we were saying out loud, because some of them were really embarrassing. And I remember sitting there going, oh my God, somebody else just asked that question. Like, there are people like us, and they were asking all the questions. I'm like, Jake, you've got to get on there and ask questions. Like, you have to participate, because if you don't, you're not going to get anything out of this. Like you need to, even though it's uncomfortable and it's a little bit weird. You have to do it. And then you did.
Danielle Bettmann 24:27
I think you had like a turning point conversation, right? Like, three or four weeks in? I remember you telling me about that.
Abbey 24:33
I'm trying to remember which one. I don't know.
Danielle Bettmann 24:36
It was when you were like, All right, are we doing this or not?
Abbey 24:40
Yeah, that is what I said, we need to do this. And I feel like we started kind of good, and then I think it was three or four weeks in, I was backpedaling, like, fast, and I think it was, it was us, and we had to pick ourselves up and work harder.
Jake 25:02
I had to really jump in with both feet and do it. I mean, like, week two really stuck with me. Some of what we heard in there really hit home for me and what I was looking for. But for some, I don't know, maybe I felt like, oh, I got it, okay, you know? And on to something else. But, yeah, there was a point that we kind of stalled out that I had to dig down and be like, all right, you know, jump in here. And even if you jump on a call and you don't know exactly, you're just gonna kind of improv, and maybe you sound like an idiot. Hey, guess what you're talking about and you're gonna talk it through with other people. It's always beneficial. Every time I've been on there talking to somebody, it's always beneficial. And we're all here because we feel the same thing. We're in the same boat. We've got these kids that we're trying to figure out. So, hey, let's do it together. That is absolutely huge. To be talking to you is a major benefit, but yeah, talking to connect with other parents and families in very similar circumstances, situations, is something you can't put a price on. That is amazing to have that opportunity.
Abbey 26:17
It's amazing how similar everybody is. And even with the Committed calls that I've been on, like a couple of those people, like that is so my kid.
Jake 26:26
That is really crazy, like, it's not, oh, here's the section that deals with my kid. Tune out the rest. Oh, my God, most of it, the vast majority of the content is directly about my kid, because it's this niche child, the way they're wired, you know, you nailed on the head, that's the way they're wired, right here, those strong willed kids, and everybody's pretty much in the same situation.
Danielle Bettmann 27:01
You really highlight an important part, because I feel like a big part of what you are investing in is access to these other families that you wouldn't have access to in real life or in other circumstances. And the similarities are just absurd. They still surprise me at this point, the things that people will say, and then we all are just like, yep, my kid does that. That was me last night. It's so validating
Jake 27:31
That absolutely is.
Abbey 27:32
I don't know how many times I put in the chat or I said it, like, that's my question too. I didn't know it was my question, but it's my question now, since you said it.
Danielle Bettmann 27:40
Yeah, you're not going to know that coming in, but then you're going to take so much away that you weren't expecting just by showing up.
Danielle Bettmann 27:57
Here's the deal. If your child is sensitive and smart yet loses it, they're clingy or aggressive with you. At home, they can go zero to 60 over the smallest things, like when they just don't get their way. Nothing changes their mind, and they can't seem to get over it. And you know, what you're doing isn't working, and siblings are starting to suffer. You could go to therapy yourself and take your child to therapy and follow all the experts and ask your family and friends for advice, take a course, and set up a calm down corner and read all the parenting books, and still feel defeated, It's time. It's time to learn the missing pieces of invaluable insight about their temperament that unlocks compassion in you and understanding of how to work with the way they're wired. It's time to communicate in new ways, like a hostage negotiator, to get through to them and cultivate cooperation with confidence, and it's time to eliminate the behaviors that are working to gain control and attention at their root, rather than playing Whack a Mole, Calm and Confident, the Master Class is for you. There you will master the kind and firm approach your strong-willed child needs without crushing their spirit or walking on eggshells. In this free training, I share the four critical, kind, and firm scripts that unlock cooperation in every situation, how to eliminate behaviors at their root, and the path to solidifying the open and honest relationship that you want to have with your child down the road. So go to parentingwholeheartedly.com/confident to access this exclusive On-Demand training immediately. That's parentingwholeheartedly.com/confident that link will be in the show notes.
Danielle Bettmann 29:57
So once you were like all in, you know, saying, like we're both gonna make the most of this and ask every question, and, you know, show up as much as we can. What started to change?
Abbey 30:11
He stopped saying no. He would just tell us no. All right, Parker, get up, you know, time to turn off the TV, time to have dinner, no, nope, or scream no, or stop it, or whatever. And we, actually, I'm kind of laughing, because we're like, when was the last time you heard him say no? And we, like, we said this out loud, and then, like, the next day, we backtracked a little bit.
Jake 30:39
This was recently, so for me, I was gaining some tools to finally not just scream at him, or, you know, getting those confrontations with him, I was able to get through to him in different ways. A huge thing I had to do was, I looked at my relationship with him, and that was a big spotlight I put on myself of like, well, you know, I'm with him all the time. He's with me all the time. We do things together. You know this and that, what do you mean? I don't have a good relationship with my son. Of course I do. And then I really started to examine it, and I'm like, wow, I guess I'm just like dictating to him all the time, and I don't know if I'm even showing respect to him necessarily, where a lot of people stop and think about it, you got to make sure you give your child respect. And I had to look at that, be like, boy, I can't say for sure I am really giving him what he needs. Why is he going to respect me if I don't respect him, and I'm not showing that? So I really had to look at my relationship with him, and I really worked on that myself, and from that, I really started to get the outcome I was looking for. You know, I don't want to yell at him, I just want to say, hey, could you do this and have him do what I'm asking, or have him not fight at every corner he possibly can. And those things started to happen during the course. I mean, it was once we really got into it and started to apply it. Those things started to change big time. And the Jerry Springer moments, I swear, Abbey, I don't know, I feel like they stopped.
Abbey 32:26
Yeah, they waned quickly. I mean, I think that the way we handle it is so different than before, where, you know, he came up and he tried to swing at me the other day, I'm like, hey, there's the bed, you can go hit the bed. I'll go do it with you. You know, I think that we figured out our triggers, and we can recognize our triggers, so that when he goes for them, because he does and he still will, just the reaction that he used to get is a lot different. So he doesn't try them as much, because he's like, well, that used to work, and I used to get the reaction, and he used to get them to go crazy, but now it's like, he just ignores me. She ignores the behavior and does something else. Like, I think that was the big turning point, and I think I'm getting better at it now, even after the course I feel like I reflect on a lot of the techniques and stuff, and I'm getting, like, stronger and stronger at it, and I try to don't use certain things as much because it doesn't work, like, some of the things don't work as well with him, you can keep weeding it out. And it took a long time to really figure out my own voice. I feel like we have that conversation. It's like, I can just say what you said, but it's like in your voice, and it doesn't work for him, where it's like, now that I stopped doing that, and I kind of like, just figure out how to put it in my way, it's more successful, and I feel like it's more authentic, and he actually is okay with it, where before, at first he would literally just scream, 'stop!'.
Jake 34:17
Oh, he'd get so pissed at the scripts.
Abbey 34:23
Why are you making fun of me?
Danielle Bettmann 34:27
That's where you would get stuck, like if it were another resource that told you in a book, say this script, and you try it exactly like they say, and it makes it worse, where do you go from there? Right? I could introduce things in a way that you could apply it, then come back for troubleshooting and tweaking, and then find the nuance or the flavor and the heart behind it, and then make it yours with that support over weeks, coming back for more and hearing it from other people, and having a lot of like, illustrated examples like, my goal for you is to be able to have your own version of it that works for you and that you continue to build momentum with and feel like you're getting stronger at, because it's a way of being, not like manhandling or manipulating, or, you know, forcing a certain formality to get a certain behavior that is ultimately unsustainable. I know I wrote down the goals you came in with were to find a way to not be so stressed all the time, learn the tools to properly handle behaviors, know that we've done the darndest we could, and do the same techniques as each other. S,o do you feel like you achieved those goals?
Jake 35:48
I think we've hit a lot. Of course, there's always work in progress. But of course, yeah, I mean, the two of us now are the most united front we've ever been in parenting, and we're united on that, and we're even working on our own relationship. And hey, let's go have date night and enjoy each other again. You know, that turned around quickly, so we're there.
Abbey 36:16
I feel like even when we get stressed, we kind of look at each other, and we try to poke fun at it, like, Oh, my God, this is so hard. And we both look at each other like we're still working on what it is like, the alternative name for him when he's just like, oh, the alter ego. We still haven't pinpointed, like, a really funny name for him yet, but we're working on that. It's got to be something that we can say in front of him where he doesn't pick up on it.
Danielle Bettmann 36:52
Yeah, you don't want to make it anything worse.
Abbey 36:56
But I feel like at this point, we can look at each other and know this is not going well. Do you want to switch? Like, I feel like we have the communication to be able to switch. Or, like, just the other night, I'm like, All right, there is a huge package outside for you. You need to go check it. He just went, there sure is.
Jake 37:17
I did not get offended.
Abbey 37:18
No, you were mad, but that's okay, but you knew exactly what I meant, right? And he just walked away, and our son was like, What package did you get? Where is it like? For like half an hour, and kept asking about this package,
Jake 37:38
I guess it's the neighbors, forget it. Don't worry about it.
Danielle Bettmann 37:41
Wrong address, wrong address.
Abbey 37:44
But the idea is, just like, we can do that, and we're not at each other's throats quite as much, because when I came back to Jake that night, and I was like, so are you mad? Are you mad at him? Are you mad at me? Where are you at? Like, what's this conversation going to be like? And he's just like, I'm just tired.
Jake 38:06
I'm tired. I know I didn't do the right things, and I could admit that. And, you know, you saw it, and you jumped in, and then I turned out okay, and not another blowout. And we are in our separate rooms, you know, not talking to each other again. So, yeah, we're definitely communicating more. We're game planning. We're gonna go somewhere. We're like, okay, here's the strategy, you know, and then front-load him on information, which is huge, which we never would have done before. I didn't even know what that was, like what the hell's front loading? Which, you know, he's just a little guy that wants to know what's going on. He's like his dad. I'm a planner. Guess what doesn't fall from this tree either? You know, it's like, he wants to know what's going on. If he doesn't know, he's gonna pull out of his, you know, very small bag of tricks. What he knows, and most of it, is bad behaviors, where you think he's just being bad. He just wants to know what's going on. So it was a huge thing in our situation to do that.
Abbey 39:09
I think a lot of times he would kind of look at us in all seriousness and be like, Do you not like me? Why? One time he said, Why do you talk to the dog nicer than me? And, oh, it's heartbreaking. So it's like, I have written down here just kind of the affirmations I think were a big thing for us. Like, you know, I'm so glad that you're my kid. I missed you while you were gone. I had such a great time doing this with you today, and I think that has gone a long way, too. It's just like he knows that he's important to us. Where I feel like before, he just felt like, kind of passed around and dealt with, and like he is something that we needed to do. Now I feel like he feels like he's a part of the family, and it's happy, instead of just tolerated.
Jake 40:11
I mean, we spend time together now, and I genuinely want to spend time with him, and I feel like I'm getting that back from him now, which is just huge. And, yeah, that's all we all want, right? That's it, just something simple, you know? And now, when he does something or he's acting up, like, hey, you know, why are you doing that? And it's enough where that relationship is now important to him, to where it's like, no, we don't throw tools in the shop. Like, no, we don't do that. And it's enough for him to be like, oh, well, you know, I want to be one of the guys. I want to be in the shop, and I want to be with you, so I won't. Does it work every time? No, but does it work often? Now, yeah, which it never did before, it would just be a screaming match. Now, I have a relationship built with him, where he wants to keep it is what I feel. It's mutual that we both want to work, you know, be there, and it's huge. It really is huge.
Danielle Bettmann 41:23
Yeah, and I remember I wrote down too, when we met for our one-on-one call, about two-thirds of the way through the program, and I kind of asked, you know, as an audit, like, how are things going? What's working, what's not? One of the things you mentioned was, you feel like his self-esteem is improving.
Jake 41:39
Yeah, he has friends. And when I say that, up until this year, Parker, do you have friends at school? No, my cousins. Everybody hates me. My cousins, everybody hates me at school. That was that, if you want to get your heart torn out, hear that from your kid.
Abbey 41:57
Yeah. I mean, at the end of last school year, he was telling the staff that he was going to kill himself.
Jake 42:05
Yeah, we started hearing, getting calls home about that, whether he knew the full capacity, what that meant is debatable. But still, we don't want to hear that. And it's not a good path.
Danielle Bettmann 42:19
No, six years old, right? So contrast that with the trip he had with his cousins a month ago.
Abbey 42:27
So yeah, the end of the course, when we went on vacation together, we did great. I mean, he didn't have any meltdowns while we were gone for that week, and we were, like, in the same house as four cousins, so he did great.
Jake 42:44
Which has been pretty painful at points.
Danielle Bettmann 42:50
To say the least, yeah, to say the least, that's remarkable.
Jake 42:54
Did we have our moments? Yeah, did we get through them quickly, yeah.
Abbey 42:58
And confident, like we knew exactly what we were gonna do.
Jake 43:02
Anything that happens now, conflict or blow up, or whatever, the resolution is so much faster, and it's not escalated nearly like it used to be. It's just boom, done. All right, we're moving on, everybody. They've concluded, which is awesome.
Danielle Bettmann 43:22
That's wild. The parents you were back at the beginning of the school year would not believe some of the things that you're saying now.
Jake 43:29
No, I wouldn't think I would be here doing this.
Danielle Bettmann 43:33
So for the skeptic listening, that was where you were, that has done all the things and may have just as much, you know, volatility at school as your family was experiencing, or may not. Either way, they're not thrilled with where they are. They really feel alone. They feel like they've gone through the rest of the gamut of resources that are available, and nothing is in their area to even look into. They're feeling pretty down and hopeless about their experience of parenting, and it's not at all what they expected. What would you tell them? What do they need to hear?
Jake 44:08
If what we are saying in your other, you know, other podcasts that you're putting out, if what you're hearing hits home like it did for me, do it. If this is your kid, if you feel like maybe I really do have a strong-willed kid, yeah, do it. This is, by far, the single resource that we've had or used and gone through that has made a huge impact for us, absolutely huge, hands down.
Danielle Bettmann 44:38
And what would you say sets it apart? Like I know we mentioned, the community being a big part of it, and the access to the other parents that you didn't have access to before, and how validating that was. Is there anything else about the content, the format, the timing, anything like that that really made it what you needed?
Abbey 44:57
I would say I really, really enjoyed the live call replays. I listened to them all the time, like, while I was in the shower. And it's, you know, like, a free moment that I could just sit and listen to other people's questions and, you know, even old recordings and stuff. I actually kind of missed that now that we're in the committed one. Because it's like, if I was just like, oh, I need to figure out what to do in this situation or whatever. And sometimes it would come up, even if it wasn't like the current group that we were in. I heard so many different ways of saying things and looking at things that were really useful. And it just kind of like made me feel like, you know, even when we weren't on live calls, that I was still kind of like immersed in the content. And for me, just like listening and re-listening helps. It was easier to like in the moment than go, oh, I've heard this. I know what to do here, or something like that. So I really liked the live recalls myself.
Danielle Bettmann 46:02
That's great. It is like learning a new language. We have to be immersed in it. And like, the deeper it is into your conscious to subconscious brain, the more it's going to become your instinct. Or, you know, it takes a lot of conditioning to override absolutely the default that it has been there and will be there still, but you catch yourself and you switch. That's really hard when you're exhausted.
Abbey 46:28
Yeah, and I feel like, even now, I mean, how many months are we out now? Like a month or 2, yeah, I still feel myself kind of reverting back. And then I go, oh, I gotta stop doing that, you know. And then, like, to push my own reset button sometimes, is really hard to, like, have that reminder. Like, if we go back, we know what that looks like. And so quickly you can go back, like I feel like things change, and like I did it myself. Like the other day, we gave our son a Nintendo Switch, and I feel like just doing that, it was like a power struggle all of a sudden. And it was flashbacks to before the course, and just like I was threatening to take it away. I'm like, I don't need to do that. I am sure about who I am and how I'm going to parent him. And telling him I'm going to take it away if he doesn't, you know, turn it off is a sure way to, like, fire right back to what we were doing, where now it's like, all right, I get it. You just got that thing, and all you want to do is play it, and it's time to go to Easter dinner, like, you've got to get off so, you know? It's so much easier, but it doesn't work, right? So I feel like even now, I'm gonna speak for both of us, but I feel like just having the tools to kind of go back, like I know I didn't do that, right? I know what I need to do, and I need to go change it, or, you know, we can do better, but we'll still do things that we probably shouldn't have, and it's not the end of the world. We'll just do better the next day.
Danielle Bettmann 48:24
Oh my gosh, that's so life-giving.
Abbey 48:25
Well, part of the program is to, like, focus on wins. And when we're having a bad day, we're like, all right, we've got to focus on something different. We say to each other, give us a win.
Danielle Bettmann 48:41
I love that. It's so hard to train your brain; that's what you need. Like it needs to be fundamental, deeply rooted change, behavior change in your mindset, perspective, well well-being. And then the ripple down effect of that is seeing those changes fundamentally, that deep root in them for their behaviors, and eliminating the ones that they don't need anymore, that's the only way to actually see the outcomes that matter most. And anything less than that, or more superficial than that, is going to create superficial or very short-lived outcomes. So you should be so proud of yourselves, number one. I know how you see yourselves as parents, I think, is in a much more compassionate light as well, where you're not beating yourself up so much, feeling like so desperate to cling on to, did I do the right thing today? And that's so, so much more of a healthy culture in your house overall, when that's more likely the norm, and you have more good days than bad days, more good moments than bad moments, you can actually, like feel into enjoying your time together and having more peac, and feeling good about who you are as a parent.
Abbey 50:03
Yeah, that's what we want, and feeling good about just, I'm gonna do this with him, and I don't have to worry about the tantrum that's gonna result at the end or in the middle or whatever, or like me losing my mind in the middle, like me myself, and like being dysregulated just because something didn't go the way I wanted it or the way I thought it was going to like, that self regulation for me at least, is really huge. Like I reflected a lot on myself, like I need to be able to control myself, because if I can't control myself, how can I expect my son to do it?
Danielle Bettmann 50:41
Absolutely. But I mean, it's also human, and it makes perfect sense that you would have a hard time with it before, despite what you know, what you're dealing with on a day-to-day basis. So it's so much more than that. But to wrap up, I have to ask you the question I ask every guest that comes on Failing Motherhood, which is, How are you the parents your kid needs?
Abbey 51:03
We're the ones who are going to do the work. We're going to figure it out, because we're good parents, and we're going to figure it out, whether that's doing a course or doing whatever it takes, but nobody else is going to do that for us or for him.
Jake 51:18
Yeah, we love them, and we haven't given up. We didn't back then. We have a major leg up now, and a lot of momentum, and we want to keep it. And I am, as a father, finally starting to see the things I wanted to see, having a son, having that relationship with him, and then even with my wife, we can finally have a son and have a good relationship. Isn't that like too much to ask? I don't think so. So those pieces are where they need to be at this point.
Danielle Bettmann 51:55
Yeah, that's so priceless.
Abbey 51:58
Yeah, so worth all the work. Thank you so much for everything that you've done for us, because we wouldn't be here without this.
Jake 52:07
I don't know. I honestly don't know where we would be. I can say that I don't know what would have happened or would be happening in the future.
Danielle Bettmann 52:17
You have yourselves to thank for trusting me, for taking that risk, for doing that research and work, and knowing that your family life is worth that short term investment and all the work that you put in, because it matters so much to you, and it shows how much you take parenting seriously. And those are the parents that create these outcomes, because you're not willing to settle, you're not willing to settle, and it took a few more years than we would like, but we're here, and now it is so much easier to just keep going, because you've done all that training to get here. So I'm so grateful to have worked with your family. Incredibly grateful for you to be willing to be on the podcast and share from such a vulnerable place, and I just can't thank you enough as well for being able to share your story with everyone listening. Appreciate it so much. Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
Danielle Bettmann 53:19
Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Failing Motherhood. Your kids are so lucky to have you. If you loved this episode, take a screenshot right now and share it in your Instagram stories and tag me. If you're loving the podcast, be sure that you've subscribed and leave a review so we can help more moms know they are not alone if they feel like they're failing motherhood daily, and if you're ready to transform your relationship with your strong willed child and invest in the support you need to make it happen, schedule your free consultation using the link in the show notes. I can't wait to meet you. Thanks for coming on this journey with me. I believe in you, and I'm cheering you on.
